Who knew that what started as a small musical genre with cheesy beats and rhymes that sounded preschool would ever become the global phenom that we now refer to as hip hop? This once scoffed at form of communication has now become the voice and look for a generation that is angry and violent. Don’t get me wrong, the deep sense of rhythm in me is tickled to no end with now masterful combinations of music and beat, but this sound has a dark side that is not really hidden to anyone and yet is openly accepted by everyone. Yea, there were some grandma’s and such that objected to the violent, profane, and unspeakable perversion that were blatantly attached with hip hop from its earliest days, but those voices were drowned out quickly with the applause of the secular world for the ability to communicate things previously unsaid and unspoken to a generation ready for something new. The days of pink hair and tight pants had come to an end and there was an underlying tone of anger that needed to be expressed. This powerful force of deep down madness led us to the place of today where rap is king and rock is a distant afterthought.
The relevance of these observations is to lay a foundation for what is prophetically on my heart today. My spirit began to be grieved when I saw this hip hop culture began to invade the last asylum of purity and sanctity within the precious Church of Jesus Christ. I remember of hearing in shock of a West Coast youth ministry that was blasting out the filth of one DMX before and after the service. As much as this shocked me at first, things would slide far further down the slope of hip hop’s slippery slope to degradation with youth services themed after rap’s latest anthem and dances emulated within the bounds of youth ministry that were birthed in perverse innuendo. The final phase of this wicked force in our midst has come with the modern day examples of leadership to this generation deciding to pull up a pants leg, put on a “wife beater”, and wear a hat sideways as if to emulate the whole “gangster” look. Since when did terms like “hustler” (which is used to describe pimps or dealers on the street) become something acceptable and even cool in the ranks of the youth ministry elite? Since when did satanic cults led by rap moguls such as JZ become material to be played and promoted to a young generation desperately needing to defeat the lure of the world? Here’s the point:
Would Jesus be impressed with our modern day creativity if He showed up to a service where shades of hip hop were everywhere and themes from its latest songs had become the very focus of the meeting? Would our Savior who died on the Cross bless our attempts to be “relative” because the things that have marked His church for 2000 years such as anointing, holiness, and peculiarity are no longer effective? Would we be able to explain to the Apostle Paul or Peter why we have green lighted a young generation of would-be believers to listen and participate in the latest of secular offerings? Yea, we can say we changed the words but we’ve in effect endorsed it. Yea, it was all meant in fun and yet we have drawn attention to some of the most foul and profane ramblings to ever be put to song and beat. This all has to stop!
Call me “old school,” but I don’t buy that we need one ounce of hip hop culture in our youth ministries. I know our example as leaders is more precious than to kid ourselves into thinking we are actually “gangster” because we throw around a little lingo and portray our image to be just like the world with a little God mixed in every now and then. I believe according to the Scriptures that we have an obligation to “flee even the appearance of evil” and do all within our power and more to lead a life led by the Spirit that disdains anything the enemy would use to blatantly promote his agenda of rage, riot, and rape. I know this is a strong word but it is something that must be said before more young people are led astray and shipwrecked in their faith. Yes, you may be able to handle it all as a big joke, but what about the weak consciences and tender curiosity of those that look up to you? What about those who see your tweet meant for a select few that goes out to tens of thousands watching students? We MUST see the big picture here!
I leave you with a simple Scripture that says it all to me from the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 11:1 “And you should imitate me as I imitate Christ.” Pray on this and I believe you will come to the same place of indignation toward a sneaky enemy who hates the Church and the young generation that is its future.
Hi. I just saw this in my twitter feed and would say that overall I do agree with you. However, what I don’t want to happen is a storm of division over whether hip hop can be Christian. I do agree that the culture of hip hop as portrayed in the media can be, and has been at times extremely destructive, perverse, and demonic. I’ve also heard people who are very much in love with God share and profess their faith, exhort, and teach through this musical form.
I absolutely love your teachings, and although I’ve never had the privilege to go to a conference I’ve seen the change in youth who have come back from one while working in youth ministry. I just want to keep this from turning into another way that causes division in an already splintered Body of Christ. What typically seems to happen in these situations though, is a media story that absolutely blow everything out of proportion and hides the core of what you are saying, which is to pursue holiness.
I’m not trying to rebut you, and I do deeply honor and respect you as a prophet of God. I’ve seen the results of your life after God in many, many youth. I just ask that you would also consider that hip hop is a creative form of expression like fine art or dance. I used to listen to a lot of the stuff you mentioned before I was saved, roughly 3 or 4 years ago, so it hasn’t been long. Once I got saved though, one of the first things God dealt with me was in media. I was led to do a 40 day media fast, and it absolutely changed my view on a lot of what I was watching and listening to. So I do understand, and the Holy Spirit within me simply will not allow me to indulge in media that is diametrically opposed to who Jesus is and all that He stands for.
I have heard artists that have taken hold of who God is, like C-lite, Lacrae, Bumps Inf, and several others that would take too long to name, and let what He’s done in their life flow through them. I believe that since God is the ultimate creative being, we should bear witness to that in our lives by being creative. Inherently no form of art is evil, because it can all glorify God. I’m definitely not saying that you can do something like make God honoring pornography, and expect that to fly, because it’s inherently against the word of God. But the act of creating movies isn’t evil.
I myself am an artist and truly want to see Christians who are on fire for God pour the overflow of what they receive from Him in worship and word into the creative arts. I believe that since we as believers have the Spirit of the living God in us that we should be the most creative and our work should be the most excellent in reflection of our eternally glorious Father.
Again, I have to reiterate that I’m not trying to start anything but want to keep believers from being caught up in a fruitless argument. We should always pursue holiness, and there will always be dissenters. However, if God is speaking to us to pursue holiness, then we should listen and be willing to do as He speaks to us. I’d love to hear a response from you, because I am also seeking after God and am always looking to hear what He may be saying with an open heart and a humble spirit.
I’m sorry for such a long post, but thank you for your time.
God bless,
Rob
Pastor Joel, thank you once again. Your ministry and prophetic voice are a constant inspiration to us and a needed confirmation that we’re not crazy in fighting for radical holiness in our youth. We’ve been consistently criticized for this, but we know our Savior requires it. PLEASE keep these challenging, encouraging words coming!
Hunter & Liz Howard
Momentum Youth Movement
Las Cruces, NM
Amen, Pastor Joel!!!
“Come out from among them and be SEPARATE.” 2 Cor. 6:17
I would encourage you who mention Christian ‘hip-hop” artists to do research on what the term really means. If you look into the origin of hip-hop itself you will find that it can never be Christian. That is not to say that Christians cannot rap. All rap is not considered hip-hop. It is important that we draw that distinction. As a follower of Joel, I totally agree that we cannot mix the two. Hip-Hop in itself is a idol. I would also encourage you to look into the lives of these so called Christian hop-hop artists. You may be surprised about their lifestyles. It is unfortunate that there are many that make music about God but do not humble themselves to live a pure life set apart to him. In this case it extends far beyond one genre of music. Again, I beg you to do more research. God said it best, ” my people perish for their lack of knowledge.”
Pastor Joel is absolutely right on this. It is not a matter or limiting creative ability its a matter of releasing a demonic spirit into the lives of our young people. We have to understand that there is a definable difference between rap and hip hop. Rap is a genre but hip hop is a lifestyle, its a way of living. Its more than just music, it wants to promote a lifestyle that is opposite of what Jesus Christ and the apostles taught us.
You cannot disciple, train and mold anyone with these methods. We must raise our dedication and expectation as leaders. I think we downgrade ourselves by opting to use these methods to “reach” young people rather to teach them what is light and what is darkness. We must require more from our parents and young people. If they at 4 and 5 years old can learn the lyrics to songs and dances they can surely desire to learn the truth of God’s word in its purest form.
I am appreciative of Pastor Joel’s stance! I would encourage everyone to visit http://www.exministries.com and research the Truth Behind Hip Hop series to learn more about the depth of this hip hop agenda. It is more than just beats and lyrics. Its one of many methods use to indoctrinate a generation and build a rebellious culture.
Let us rise up and be a radical voice in the land! God bless you!!!
Pastor Joel. I am a HUGE fan of yours. Our church has used Bethany as a model for years and you have spoke at our church in Marion IN. People also thought the same thing about contemporary worship as the church progressed from hymnals. Please listen to Lecrae. I have found that alot of Christian rap sounds alot like the world withou the “cuss words” but the same spirit behind it. I wonder if poetry w a beat behind it is just something satan stole and perverted it as he did everything else. Listen to Lecrae’s song “Church Clothes ” and “Killa” you will find alot of versus you will agree with. Again i truly love your teachings and am a Joel and Jonathan fan. Im a river hippo!!
we are definitely living in a day, where being a Bible believing Christian makes you a person in a counter culture, there is issues that we face as Christians that we stand against, its not the People that we are standing against but its the kingdom of darkness that were wrestling against. The truth is every person has a side to choose, are you going to stand on Biblical truth? Or, are you going to choose a lifestyle of selfish idols. the Kingdom of Light and the kingdom of darkness are at war with each other but you can’t pick sides on different issues! One big problem in the church today is that when we come against the issues of darkness our flesh wants go against them in a fleshly manor, which is why we don’t overcome the issue, we have no power when we don’t rely on God’s spirit. or we compromise with an issue and still we have no power because we allowed that spirit into our lives. I believe what Pastor Joel is addressing is we don’t have the power to be effective soul winning, revolutionary, men and women of God when we allow a cultural lifestyle to interfere with the message of the Cross and repentance.
@Pastor Joel- this has turned into a really good discussion thank you…I agree that there is a problem w sagging and this “wannabe- swag” thing, but I think that’s a culture thing, I’m not sure its from hip hop per say. Obviously there are mainstream artists who portray that lifestyle in the music industry but so are NBA players. We don’t blame the NBA for kids acting that way. Wearing the bill of a hat to one side did not come from rap music. Rap music may have later reflected the style, it came from gang members showing which set they were involved in. There are a lot of christian rap artists who will be able to reach kids that would have other wise never listened. Please don’t discount these guys, keep an opened mind. Love you guys!
I see a lot of people mentioning Lacrae. I would advise you to look into his lifestyle before you stand behind his music.
Wow Amen.
Ugh. Seriously?
This point of view makes offensive and ignorant generalizations about an entire group of people.
I will fully acknowledge that there are SEGMENTS of hip-hop that are violent, misogynistic, and clearly not Christ-like. This is a symptom of the broken world in which we live. It is not what caused hip-hop to become popular.
If I were to use the same logic used here, I could easily argue that we should never allow Christians in church because Christian culture has advocated, promoted, and carried out all kinds of unspeakable acts on people all over the world, all in the name of Christ.
That’s insane.
I might also point out that many of the early hymns that Luther wrote were considered vulgar by the Church, because he often used popular, secular tunes. Oh, and the Church also wasn’t particularly happy about the Bible being translated into English, the common language of the culture and the people who needed to hear the message it contained.
My prayer for you and for many of the others on this thread is that you would open your eyes and hearts to the people who are participating in hip-hop culture in way that is not only Christlike, but is carrying the gospel to people who have gone largely ignored by the body of Christ.
Lecrae has been mentioned, and he is probably the most popular example. But there are many others: This’l, theBREAX, NomiS, Reconcile, KB, Andy Mineo, Corey Paul, Chris Cobbins, Derek Minor, Tony Tillman, Sho Baraka, Suzy Rock, Braille, Odd Thomas, Propaganda, I could go on. I’m choosing only to mention these names because these are men and women whom I have met personally and spent time with. Men and women whom I have witnessed carrying the cross into the world and shining the light of Christ into the darkness that often pervades hip-hop music.
I can’t make anyone like the music, but I can urge you to do some research on your own, and to support your brothers and sisters in Christ who are called to reach the previously unreachable through a medium that you might not have chosen, but one that is no less appropriate than any other.
So MUCH to be said here. I’ll do my best to keep to the core issues I see for the sake of brevity.
First, the article obviously comes from a couple of core issues: 1. Preference, 2. Lack of an understanding of “culture” and honestly 3. Sincere concern.
On the first point, with statements like the opening comment which shows a CLEAR bias of the sound (and an obvious lack of exposure to it) not to mention comments like “where rap is king and rock is a distant afterthought.” These comments show his disdain for even the proper use of hip-hop come from a PERSONAL not prophetic place as he seems to believe. And you talk about hip-hop as place where rage and violence is promoted then positively mention rock AS IF ROCK MUSIC DOESN’T PROMOTE IT TOO!
On the second point, you obviously believe that hip-hop is either A. 100% evil and no good can come from it or B. Not actually a unique cultural expression but just the sound of renegades within an existing culture that needs to be eliminated. Some may argue that there’s a C. option – you’re a racist but I 1000000% believe its not C. I do believe that its a combo of A & B. Here’s what you HAVE to understand – hip-hop isn’t just music or clothes its a CULTURE. And no, its not all a culture of thugs and gangsters just like Mexican culture isn’t a culture full of murderous drug cartel working criminals. Yet, if I base my ideas on Mexican culture by what I see in movies and MSNBC documentaries I could come to that conclusion too. But one thing I can’t deny despite my voyeuristic view into the culture is that it is just that – a culture. A unique expression of ideas, beliefs and thoughts through the use of art, fashion, foods, etc. And like any culture there are somethings in it’s ethos that MUST be rejected. But just because some things in it must be rejected does NOT mean it must all be rejected. If that were the case, America as a whole should be rejected because of its loooong history of systematic abuse of the poor and uplifting of one’s personal freedoms over the benefit of the whole. That’s evil. Prideful. God rejects that. But America needs REDEMPTION. If you disagree with that then let’s burn this baby down and move to Canada. There are things in ANY culture to REJECT, REDEEM and RECEIVE. You advocate ONLY for the rejection of the entire culture which inherently rejects those are actually in the culture. And the goal of any good missionary is not to make them more like US but more like Christ. We don’t need those genuinely in the hip-hop culture looking like a rock and roll skater or a suburban yuppie. That’s poor evangelism, its poor missionary living, its improper prophesy to not speak the language of the people you intend to reach.
3. Genuine concern. I think you have a GENUINE concern about some of the things being done in the name of “reaching people” or being “relevant.” And to that extent I agree with you. Some people aren’t using it as missionary or evangelistic element to reach those embedded in the culture but rather use it as a gimmick. They see the successful impact of hip-hop culture and try to leverage it for the sake of their own popularity. SOME are doing that and I agree it is shameful.
Some claim to be using the ministry in Acts at Mars Hill as proof text to embrace EVERYTHING out there for the sake of “preaching the gospel.” Yet they fail to do what Paul did when he looked at what he saw – “he was grieved.” And as we look at the culture that we aim to reach we MUST be grieved by their condition and the ungodly aspects of their culture so that we may point them to the life changing power of the Gospel. So there is an element of agreement with you in the sense that some are going too far in their use of elements of the culture. They are prostituting it just as much as real hip-hop heads would say big corporations are prostituting the purity of what hip-hop music is.
All in all, I disagree with your assessment that hip-hop as a whole should be rejected. Especially since you obviously advocate for what is YOUR PERSONAL preference. That’s not a prophetic message, its personal problem. While I agree that some are using it perversely -both out and in the church – to out right reject it on those grounds is arrogant (because you don’t like it) and prejudice. And I mean that literally – to pre-judge it based on an experience and not explore it for what it really is.
I don’t agree. Like every movement on Earth, this innocent dance style has been infiltrated by the wrong elements and enemy of our Christ and His friends to be the regular spoilsport or cause the regular “let’s kick a demon behind this bush” crowd.
Our children needs a regular balanced family setup and role models of both sexes in the family to be able to make their own decisions on what’s right or wrong. The wrong comes over everyones path and we all have to resist and stand our ground.
The participating children should be the crowd learning about these spiritual manifestations and not the parents. As we are nearing the Kingdom lifestyle with a vengence, children will be more susceptable to education about this problem than their parents.
The devils had been out of the closets since they have been babies in all their entertainment avenues. -nstead of making them afraid of the demonic, start to train them about it, instead of letting them learn the hard way, the rebelious way or the wicked way.
5ont we as parents ever learn as soon as you tell a child “no”, they mostly pursue it in secret and mostly live to regret it? Equip them!!!
Co-sign everything Daniel and Steven Patton said. Joel…I know you meant well, but this was pretty off-base.
While I agree with some of the concerns expressed here about conformation I do have to ask why is Indie Rock/Punk Rock music/culture excluded and hip hop is the only genre called out?
I recall over the years the Deluge band has produced some incredible praise & worship some of which sounds very much like Alternative and Indie rock and one could say much of the attire and style by the youth is very comparable to the Indie hipster movement of the last few years.
I would even venture to say the more dangerous genre could quite possibly be current mainstream Indie Alternative as the vulgarity and innuendo that is blatantly expressed in mainstream Rap/Hip Hop is not readily evident or identifiable. So what could be misconstrued as a harmless guitar strumming love song could be more vulgar and yet is an unknowingly accepted compromise because it lacks the violent and in your face nature of Rap and Hip Hop.
Hey Joel, we have met once before with “Cesar Fajardo” in a conference there.
I was reading your article and I know you twitted that your not against Christian rap but you didn’t on this article. I think it can be interpreted as you being against Christian hip hip.
Now I personally know many “Christian rappers” that are imitators after money in the Christian scene.
I also think it can be interpreted as you being against a dress style (though of course that’s not what you wrote)
Maybe you need to write more on the subject so many of us can understand. Especially those of us who believe in “the anointing, holiness and truth as well as the power of music to change a generation”.
Also I think it’s wrong to assume that there is some “spirit” behind christian rap for if that where true there there is a “spirit Behind the christian rock” Ive heard play In many a church. (I know you didn’t write this, I’m simply saying
The issue is concecrated lives sent with a message which don’t compromise with the world.
In Houston Tx
http://facebook.com/mission4000
I Am a pastor, Church planter and leas overseer of the above rap team and have found that many (not all) Houston Artist (Christian) don’t even attend Churches, lead submitted lives, nor have deep roots in prayer and holiness.
So i Am with you, but i think That those of US who use Rap as you use Rock Need further clarificación.
With all due respect Pastor Stockstill, I have to respectfully disagree with a great part of your view on hip hop and the hip hop generation. I assume you wrote this on your site with the expectation that you would receive feedback from others, so I press on. Just for context, I am 37 years old, grew up through the hip hop culture from its beginnings through the manifestation of current Christian hip hop. But more importantly, I am a follower of Christ Jesus my Savior!
You refer to hip hop’s beginnings as “violent, profane, and unspeakable perversion that were blatantly attached with hip hop from its earliest days”, which couldn’t be further from the truth of it’s origins. In fact there is, and has always been an entire subculture of hip hop that is geared towards upliftment and enlightenment, much as there is subcultures that focus on crime, demonic spirits, comedy, sex, and yes, even biblical theology. I suspect however, that we don’t have the time, nor is it that important to go through a history of this culture.
The point is like any other thing created by man, it has been used by the devil to destroy lives and even entire generations. Much like EVERY culture, rock music, alternative, indie, country, etc, etc, hip hop is used by the devil. But God reveals his sovereignty and majesty through us as there are many vessels (2 Timothy 2:20), some that honor him, and some that don’t. As a result, Christians are spreading God’s word throughout Christian Rock, Christian Alternative, Christian Indie, Christian Country, and yes, Christian Hip Hop.
What we must be careful of is labeling an entire culture, that we may or may not fully understand, as evil or sinful because of what we witnessed from one or two (or even a majority) of people. For then we make the same mistakes non-believers do when they say, “See that’s why I don’t attend church”, after another high profile Pastor falls from grace.
The bottom line is, regardless of musical genre, does the music you’re listening to “glorify God” or further “His Message” in some way. If it does, and happens to be set to a “cheesy beat”, then let the Angels rejoice. Because there’s been plenty of times I’ve listened to a popular Christian Rock band, and after the song ends I wondered when they were gonna mention Christ. The devil is not averse to infiltrating anything man made, that includes hip hop, the pulpit, religious factions, rock music, etc, etc.
P.S. Turn on any song by Timothy Brindle, Stephen the Levite, Shai Linne, and a host of others, and try not to walk away having been fed by the Spirit.
Blessings to All.
WELL SAID!!
You said it exactly right! HOLINESS is what we live for! Thank you for teaching us NOT to compromise!
After reading this I have to say I was very disappointed. The reason why is when I went to college (2003) I was met outside my dorm building by a group of young men that offered to help me move into my dorm. Once we were done, they invited me to a campus ministry called “Plumbline” (supported by Denton Bible Church in TX). These guys took me in as a brother, exposed me to Biblical truth that I NEVER got before, discipled me in studying the Bible and the history, and encouraged me to share my faith in Jesus. After about 4-5 months I found out they were rappers (Amisho “Sho Baraka” Lewis, Lecrae Moore, and Tedashi Anderson). They discouraged money chasing, were criticized on campus BIG TIME for their standard of HOLINESS and they never once used their music to try to lure me. They simply took me in as a brother
I say all that to say, there is NO spirit or agenda behind “Beats” and ”Rhyming”. There IS a spirit behind PEOPLES HEART and INTENTIONS and these guys intentions were pure and Godly. NOW, largely due to what they introduced me to, I have become a Youth Pastor and have watched dozens of kids come to CHRIST without using Jay Z, riot, wearing a sideways cap, or saying Yo Yo Yo… Its just music at the end of the day.
And lastly to Jamar….I’ve experience exministries in PERSON and it is a JOKE. I was very offended at the fact that this man (Craig G.) goes around the country preaching this garbage and spends all this time on useless conspiracy theories when all he needs to do is expose Jesus Truth.
I’m really in shock Pastor Joel. Your opinion reads as if you praise rock which started with “making whoopie” and down casting Hip-hop. All types of music can praise God, as long as the intent and words do that.
For anyone who reads my comment, I encourage you to use what sound God has given you to praise Him. Whether rap, rock, or beating on a pot, let your sound praise the Lord.
This was a brilliant arrival I agree with every bit and talk about “conviction” on the commenters
JOEL,
As I agree with certain parts, I can’t agree on all points. I believe Christian Rap can be used in a powerful and influential way. I know tons of people who gave their lives to Christ because someone gave them a Christian Rap cd and helped open their eyes to truth. I do not agree however with these “Thug Christian Rappers.” Rappers who want to put a bullet in the devils head, bust a Holy Spirit cap in someone. I’ve even heard certain rappers say N**GA in there songs. There are rappers who are compromising the word of God to “Reach the Lost.” As the new topic trending was Christian Artist who don’t want to be called a “Christian Rapper.” Just a rapper. This is where danger lies because the music is no longer about Christ but themselves. I’m not saying you have to have every song say Jesus Jesus etc but if in your whole album I can’t tell who you’re talking about, Christ isn’t mentioned, I’m curious who are you rapping for? Romans 116 is the anthem for Christian Rappers not being Ashamed of Christ yet they contradict that by removing Him from lyrics.
Jesus said “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him….(John 6:44) Our Lord does draw people to Him, and no one can come to the Lord apart from God’s drawing power. So if our lyrics aren’t sharing Christ or truth than what good is it? Thats for any and every genre. Also as you mentioned, these artist tweet things that thousands of kids see. If the lifestyle isn’t matching the Christ centered lyrics then they are leading people astray. I’m watching tweets from artist about hot girls, sex, they retweet, quote Tupac lines, Kanye, Jay-Z etc. Some artist are featuring secular artist on their cd’s. Artist who go against everything God HATES and as a Christian artist they are collaborating? Really? MY BIBLE SAYS For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. (Ephesians 5:5-7)
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity(HATRED) against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. (James 4:4)
Don’t even partner with them scripture says yet these artist are making excuses why they do what they do and have some Christians blinded because these artist are “Famous.” This is why we need to study scriptures for ourselves and learn tbem so we aren’t led astray.
But as I said, If an artist is truly living the life and you can tell in their lyrics they are speaking truth, glorifying God then I see nothing wrong. If the lyrics are all about themeselves, the hood, and speak no truth, life, or Christ in them then we need to be careful what we allow ourselves, our children (if any) to listen to. Good article, always a tough topic! God Bless!